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Archive - Spirit of the Word - Covenant Eschatology - Introductory Note - New Stuff
"###'s rebuttal..."Jay:
Hello ###. How's the weather way up there in Canada? Probably still pretty cold. At least the weather is probably more consistent up there than it is here in central Kentucky. If you ever here in central Kentucky and you don't like the weather, stick around...it'll get better. If you do happen to like it, you may wanna leave, 'cause it'll change the next day. Weatherwise, that is how it is down here. Enuf of that.
I read your rebuttal of UR dated Feb-11-02. The first thing i wanna touch on is what you said about Charlie. You said that Charlie "makes it appear that God HAS to save us". By the implication of what you said, you are right. God does not HAVE to save mankind, universally or partially. But He WANTS to and it is His will to so. See Colossians 1:20 and 1 Corinthians 15:21-28. Also, read 1 Corinthians chp. 13 and tell me HOW eternal torment or annihilation can be consistent with the unconditional agape love of God.
Speaking of love, you said, "merely because God damns us, it does not necessarily follow that God doesn't love those He damns" and that God loves people with different "types" of love. Where is the scriptural warrant for this? Come on, love is love is love! While there are different expressions of love they all have this in common: they will what is good and DO what is good for another and while the love of God and His judgements may be severe and harsh at times, He has our best interests in mind and does not desire our demise, temporally or eternally. And don't be giving me this "overly sentimental concept of love" line in response. The love that we as human beings try to show, as imperfect as it is, is NOT just "overly sentimental". Remember, we are made in God's image. God does not just love. He IS love. Maybe you need to spend some time with God and meditate on 1 Corinthians chp. 13 and the first epistle of John. We should love God because He first loved us. See 1 John 4:7-21. Meditate on that for a while. There is no fear in love; but perfect (mature) love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected (or matured) in love. We loved because He first loved us.Don't be thinking, "Yeah, God is love, but He is also holy and just..." Since when is God's holiness and justice devoid of mercy and love? Are they somehow incompatible? If they somwhow are, where is the scriptural warrant for it?
You also said, "That's the wrong attitude. We must love God even if he chooses to damn us. God is worthy of love, and we are not". If that statement doesn't sound whacked out, I don't know what does. Would YOU really love God if He damned you? Wouldn't that be a little easier said than done? Even though God is worthy of our love, WHY would you love Him if He chose to damn you forever? I don't see the logic or sense in this.
"...and we are not". So we are not worthy of love, huh? I know you can't find a scripture, at least taken in its proper context, to support that. If we are not worthy of love, why does God save anybody? If we are not worthy of love (from God's point of view) why would YOU want to love such a "God"? And if we are not worthy of love, then why did Jesus say that we should love our neighbor as ourselves?
You are mistaken, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power (or love) of God.
And if you really feel that God created you so that you could be damned, how does that feel? In all honesty, you really can't, from the heart, sincerely love and worship such a "God". Doesn't your belief in eternal punishment (emphasis on eternal) instill despair and needless fear in you? Perhaps even resentment or anger? So much for a victorious Christian life and having the fruit of the Spirit...
Don't be so hung up on the letter of God's word that you end up missing the true spirit and meaning that God intended.
Well, I gotta go and look forward to the responses.
Peace to all. (Especially you ###; it seems like you may need it)
###:
I'll consider what you have said. It's very hard to accept, though. Why shouldn't our after-life experience be terrible, when this current one is? Isn't this life just a foretaste of the wretchedness that awaits us after death?
Charlie:
Hi ###,
My response is, why even try to serve this horrifing god that plans to trash and burn billions of people that he thinks didn't love him enough? (Including many Christians!)Why not just live it up and party and have a good time? Better to feel good for a little while, than to serve this vicious "(((GOD)))" monster and STILL probably wind up in hell. We're talking about ETERNITY here! And us being there with NO memories of ever feeling anything euphoric or good in this brief little wisp of a lifetime!
If I believed in the kind of god you're talking about, I'd bail out--immedietly.
Besides, since it's all up to chance anyhow, you might party all your life and STILL be saved via a deathbed repentence. It's happened to a fair number of folks, so I'm told. On the other hand, there's also the chance that you won't have an opportunity to repent on your deathbed. Right?
So since it's all up to "chance", why not collect as many memories of feeling good that you can, just in case that will be ALL may you have left in eternity?
On the other hand, you might read my testimony at www.sigler.org/slagle and study all the Scriptures that I share with it. Who knows? You might fall in love with God with all your heart...if...you become convinced that He will reach into even the deepest hell to save you.
That's what happened to me, anyhow.
Yep. When I found out that God loves you and me too much to lose us, I became ALL THE MORE EAGER to obey and trust Him.Unfailing Love heals and transforms hearts. Legalistic religion breaks and destroys them.
Your friend always,
With love and prayers,
CharlieSpirit of the Word - Covenant Eschatology - Introductory Note - New Stuff