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Posted by Tentmaker

In Reply to: Reply to Robert's Question posted by #####

For those who are unfamiliar with Dew format, under this heading we discuss
Scriptures which have often been used to prove our Father gets something out
of toasting people forever. We believe our Father is love and more
importantly, a loving Father. In the earthly realm, a father who would
endlessly torture his children would be locked up for child abuse. If he
murdered his child, he might even get capital punishment.

Somehow, many of us have been duped into believing the Creator of us all who
is love, could also put people through anguish that Hitler, Manson, Nero,
and Phalarus put together could not dream up. Somehow many of us have been
brainwashed into believing that our heavenly Father can be the most sadistic
creature ever imaginable and still call Him, love.

Well, if He is what the fundamentalists say He is, then He is the most awful
thing imaginable. The God of the typical church sounds more like Satan than
the One who loved us so much that He gave His Beloved Son for us, that we
might live . . .and live we shall because His love will save us and we will
all one day experience that love and be changed . . .all of us.

Look for what is lovely. Look for the highest picture you can conceive. It
will fall far short of the love the Father has for all His creation. When
one views the Scriptures with love in their heart, the plan of the Creator
begins to make sense. His use of evil, suffering, tearing us and then
reviving us, and even being turned over to Satan by an apostle that our
spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord begins to make sense when we see
that our Father’s motive in doing all things is love. Remember not only is
His motive towards us love, He is love!

Now, let us turn to a Scripture that used to give me great problems when I
was in several denominations that taught one could lose their salvation. One
of the classic texts they used to bring people back under fear, which casts
out love, was Hebrews chapter 6, verses 4,5, and 6.

"For it is impossible to those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned."

First of all, all Scripture is “profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for
correction, for instruction in righteousness.” (2 Tim. 3:16) In order for it
to be “profitable” to us, it must be “rightly divided” (2 Tim 2:15) or else
we can twist it to our or other peoples destruction. Under the Mosaic law, a
father should stone to death a rebellious son. (Deut. 21:18-21) If we take
that scripture and say “all scripture is for us and we are to obey it,” then
many of us will have to kill our children even thought we would go to jail
as a result of “obeying” the Word of God.

This Scripture regarding stoning rebellious children dealt only with Israel,
in the land of Israel, under the Mosaic Law which has been done away with.
This law never was for anyone accept for Israel. Those who try to tell us
that the Mosaic Law is still for us today conveniently skip over these types
of laws knowing it will put them in jail so they focus on tithes,
ceremonies, the ten commandments, and the like.

We can read about these laws and by the spirit gain much understanding about
spiritual things reading about the people of Israel in the land of Israel,
but to apply those laws to gentiles outside of Israel which have been done
away with, is to twist the Scriptures to our own destruction. We will suffer
much loss of love, joy, and peace trying to keep those laws today.

This same principle we just talked about with Moses’ Law also applied with
the New Testament. If Jesus told Peter to do something, it doesn’t mean He
told you to do it. There have been people in church history who drowned
trying to walk on water. We can learn much from Jesus’ conversation with his
disciples, but be careful in how you apply it. Unless Jesus directly tells
you to walk on water, it would be wise to take a boat.

Now with this is mind, let us look at this passage in the book addressed to
the Hebrews. Are you a Hebrew? Even if you are of the religion of modern
Judaism, it does not make one a “Hebrew.” If you are not a Hebrew, be
careful about applying this scripture to yourselves or anyone else.

Secondly, this letter was specifically written to Hebrews living at a very
crucial time in Christian history. The range of dates for its writing ranges
from 60 A.D. to 90 A.D.. Most scholars believe it to be written just before
the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.. If that is the case, then the
parallel the writers makes to the 40 years the children of Israel seeing
God’s work in the wilderness and the trial Jewish believers were going
through at that time is very interesting. (Heb. chapter 3) If this letter
was written near 70 A.D., then we are approaching a time period of around 40
years after the crucifixion.

It is hard for us to look at this time period from the point of view of a
Jew living at this time, but give it a try. Picture yourself being born in
40 A.D. in Caesarea. It is now 68 A.D. and you are 28 years old. Rome is
still occupying Israel, the temple is still up. Each year your family takes
a trip down to Jerusalem to come before the Lord with sacrifices. Although
Yashua was crucified several years before, the Priesthood, the Sanhedrin,
the animal sacrifices are still going on. In order for your sins to be
cleansed for the year, your family goes down to Jerusalem at Passover,
Pentecost, and Tabernacles each year.

Every Sabbath, your family attends the local Synagogue for song, fellowship,
hearing Scripture readings, and prayer. One day one of the members
approaches you and tells you that forgiveness of sins can only be forgiven
by faith in Yashua, who died in the previous generation. This fellow Jew
invites you to a gathering of like minded Jews meeting on the following day
in someone’s house. You decide to come to the gathering, even though your
family told you that this group is a dangerous cult that idolizes a dead
man. Picture your father who loves you saying, “They claim He was
resurrected, but we haven’t seen Him. They cause much trouble and they even
fight amongst themselves. James, the brother of this rebel, still keeps the
laws of Moses, but this Paul, says our laws mean nothing. They are confused
and are going to cause us trouble with the Romans. Stay away from them. They
are heretics!”

Despite your father’s warning, you attend this “agape feast” anyway. Picture
a little gathering of perhaps 30 people. They are all so loving! They seem
so joyful. The 3 or 4 hour afternoon is filled with wonderful songs, stories
about what this Yashua did, and hope of wonderful things to come very soon.
A sick person is prayed for and immediately healed. A woman speaks in a very
strange language and another gives the interpretation. In all, it is a
wonderful afternoon. These people seem very harmless and sincere. You decide
to attend a few more of these meetings and find yourself beginning to
believe that there may be something to what they are saying. Perhaps you
even join in some of the songs, or have someone pray for you and feel the
prayer was answered.

But your father finds out where you have been these last few weekends and is
furious. It is the Tabernacle season and the family must go, according the
Moses Law which is binding on every Jew, to Jerusalem to offer sacrifices
for their sins. What do you do? Some followers of Yashua, still offer animal
sacrifices, others say it is like offering swine's blood. If you do not go
to Jerusalem with your father, he will disown you as a son. Are these
wonderful afternoons worth losing your entire family?

These are some of the things that were going on in the minds of Jews at this
time in history. Many Jews left the Yashua movement because many leaders of
the Messianic movement claimed the kingdom of Yahweh would be established
within the generation that saw Yashua crucified. The length of a generation
had or was about to pass. Many Jewish believers began to go back to the
Mosaic system of animal sacrifices. Many believed in Yahshua and gave
sacrifices. The church in Jerusalem with James as its head never broke away
from the law.

At this time, the Jews as a nation began to rebel against the Roman system.
The need for loyalty among all Jews became very important. Jews that hung
around gentiles, especially Romans, were looked down upon as disloyal to
their nation. In short, there were great reasons in this time of Jewish
history for Jews to give up the hope in the Messianic Movement and go back
to all the traditions of Moses, especially since the Priesthood and Temple
were still up. It was not yet destroyed.

Try to picture yourself in this point in history. There were many in these
“agape feasts,” as they were called, who were not truly converted; they
“tasted” of the good word of God and the powers of the age to come. One can
taste of something but not eat it, not consume it. There are many sitting in
churches today, listening to preaching, singing songs, seeing healings,
being healed, and paying tithes, and yet not quickened in the Spirit. There
are many who have been quickened, but never leave first grade. This writer
is exhorting Hebrews to enter into something they are not entering into.
Some aren’t quickened and he is preaching to them, and those that are “born
from above,” he is exhorting to get out of first grade, elementary
principles of Christ. He is exhorting all to press to perfection not laying
again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,
of the doctrines of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the
dead, and of eternal judgment, or as some translations have it, judgment of
the ages. (Heb. 6:1-3)

The writer is trying to burn all bridges for everyone, “tasters” or “born
from above” folks. He is telling them not to look back. Our Father was
warning all the Hebrews at this time through this book that He was going to
completely put an end to the Mosaic system. Shortly after this, the Romans
completely destroyed the temple and the genealogical records and kicked the
Jews out of the only “lawful” place they could offer animal sacrifices.
The writer of Hebrews spent many words comparing the Mosaic system with the
“better way.” Jesus Christ was a “better revelation” (1:1-4), a “better
hope,” (7:14) a “better Priesthood,” (7:20-28) a “better Covenant,” (8:6)
“better promises,” (8:6) “better sacrifices,” (9:23) “better possessions,”
(10:34) “better country,” (11:16) “better resurrection.” (11:35)

The writer of Hebrews is closing all doors except one. The sin problem has
always been one of the conscience. The only way for the conscience to be
cleansed is through the blood of the Messiah. Mixing it with the blood of
bulls and goats will not produce a pure conscience. How many Christians
today mix their faith in Christ with law? Honestly, now.

If this Scripture was saying that if one falls away, that there is no hope
of being saved, then there is no hope for backsliders. Most churches that
teach that salvation can be lost are full of backsliders coming to the altar
every week to get saved again! This Scriptures shows that works of the flesh
will not produce life, nor will those works be acceptable to our Father.
They will be burned, as verses 7 and 8 point out.

In chapter 5, the writer says that some of the people he is writing to ought
to be teachers by now, but they have need of milk since they are obviously
unable to eat solid food. They cannot exercise their spiritual senses to
discern good from evil. Is our Father going to roast these followers of
Christ because they are too young in the Lord to discern good and evil? Of
course not!

The writer of Hebrews’ main purpose in this letter is to clearly show this
group of Hebrews who were mixing Mosaic Law with Faith that in order to grow
to maturity, to bring forth the works of the Holy Spirit instead of the
flesh, to bear good fruit, one must continue to put off Moses. Have no faith
in types and shadows which avail nothing. Go beyond the ABC’s of repentance
from dead works etc., on to maturity. Going back to the Levitical sacrifices
was dead works which would not cleanse the conscience. Faith would not grow,
therefore no fruit of the spirit. Such a person would be saved “so as
through fire.” (1 Cor. 3:15)

The book of Hebrews is a book of ABCs which most Christians do not
understand because they do not understand what fruit bearing is all about.
They do not understand that “law keeping,” such as going to church every
Sunday, will not produce the fruit of the Kingdom. The ten commandments is
called the ministry of death in 2 Cor. 3:7. Many pastors teach that the ten
commandments are to be kept. I tell you no matter how well one keeps them,
all they can ever do you is sentence you to death. The closer one thinks
they are to keeping them, the more self-righteous that person will be,
trusting in their own righteousness instead of receiving the gift of Life
which comes by faith.

What the writer is saying to the Hebrews is that the blood of bulls and
goats system is over. What the Creator once sanctified was done away with
and replaced with something much better. A spiritually fruitful life of
doing the work of the Father and bearing good fruit could only come from the
Messiah. This Scripture has nothing to do with eternal punishment or losing
one’s salvation. It is a book to show one how to produce the works and fruit
of the kingdom through the Holy Spirit. It is a book that clarifies the
difference between works of the flesh (which is really what most of us
produce) and works which are done by the Father through us. These latter
works will not produce pride and self-righteousness because we can’t take
any credit for them. That is the difference between lawkeeping which we play
a part in, and faith which is of the Creator. One will burn, the other will
stand. One will suffer loss in the lake of fire and be saved so as through
fire, the other will receive a reward. But in no circumstance is this book
even hinting of eternal torment or losing one’s salvation. That is added by
preachers and pastors who rule with fear. You will know them by their fruit.

         Tentmaker

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